Invisible ADHD in Women: Misdiagnosis, Signs, and Tools That Work
Podcast · StRest
Hosted by Kerstin Lindquist · Guest: Shanna Pearson · · 58 min watch
On StRest, health coach and TV host Kerstin Lindquist talks with Shanna Pearson, founder of Expert ADHD Coaching and author of Invisible ADHD, about how ADHD shows up in adult women, why so many are missed or misdiagnosed, and the everyday tools from Shanna’s book.
Kerstin brings her own family into the conversation, from her mother to her son’s diagnosis as a child. Near the end, Shanna explains why she stays off social media and why doing less at a time gets more done.
In this episode
- ADHD-I, the inattentive presentation once called ADD, and why anyone with ADHD has had it their whole life
- Living with an “everything all at once right now” brain, and why ADHD tends to show up inside women’s heads and in outward behavior for men
- Why Expert ADHD Coaching is directive and has clients put tools in place during the session: “boot camp for your brain”
- Why medication helps you focus, but not on the right things
- Mood scheduling, writing down the facts instead of the what-ifs, and physical state changes, from a menthol mint and a glass of cold water to putting your shoes on and stepping outside
- Walking on eggshells as a clue, and how the PHQ-9 and GAD-7 screening forms overlap with ADHD, so many women are diagnosed with depression or anxiety instead
Episode links
- The video on YouTube, with chapter times
- Apple Podcasts, where the episode is titled “Shanna Pearson shares why so many midlife women are missed…”
- Spotify, which carries the video too
Transcript
This transcript follows the video above. Times are minutes and seconds into it. The video opens with a short clip from later in the conversation and keeps the show’s sponsor messages. The audio on Apple Podcasts runs a few minutes longer, so its times differ.
Shanna Pearson (0:00): it's really hard to get off of it if you have ADHD, and you're, you're on social media. It's hard to be like, "Well, I've had my 20 minutes. Now I must go back to my work." That's very difficult. If, if you ever had a, a problem with, with alcohol, you wouldn't go sit in a bar.
Kerstin Lindquist (0:16): Right.
Shanna Pearson (0:16): It's, it's just not a healthy place for you to be. (chuckles) It's like-
Kerstin Lindquist (0:19): Right
Shanna Pearson (0:19): ... don't do that. (gentle music)
Kerstin Lindquist (0:22): This is StRest. I'm Kerstin Lindquist, health coach, author, and Emmy Award-winning TV host. I've committed to helping people reduce stress through impressive health science, attainable mindset change, and biblical truth. Let's have a real conversation with zero judgment and endless solutions that you can use. You aren't alone. You can do this. Let me help you reduce stress and make room for rest. (gentle music) Well, I wrote books to begin with, to be able to kind of, um, give myself therapy. It's like a, a form of journaling, and now I'm in this podcast, which kind of does a whole lot of the same things. I don't think that there has been an episode to me that wasn't personal, that wasn't, uh, piqued because I had an interest in the topic because it somehow fit my life or a life of somebody I loved.
(1:18) I mean, the entire reason I did this podcast was because I lost my mom early to dementia. But this topic, this topic of ADHD, is super personal for many different reasons. Um, I don't personally have ADHD, although I questioned myself as we went through this conversation, (chuckles) who you're- what you're gonna hear right now with Shanna Pearson. But I do have a lot of people in my life, and that ADHD has caused major, major harm and wreaked havoc on relationships and families as a result of that. It is estimated that 50 to 75% of women are struggling with ADHD. I want you to let that sink in. 50 to 75% of women are struggling with ADHD, and they don't even know that they have it, and you're basically fighting an uphill battle.
(1:58) We're gonna give you some of the ways to figure out if possibly this is you in this upcoming episode. We're going to hear from Shanna Pearson. She's the founder and director of Expert ADHD Coaching. So this is a coaching way to help you deal with ADHD. It's the world's largest one-on-one ADHD coaching company and has successfully administered nearly 500,000 coaching sessions for tens and thousands of clients, and we're talking about people all the way from Google and Apple and Yale Medical School associates, to Disney, to just people like you and me. Her book is the reason that we're here. Invisible ADHD: Proven Mood and Life Management for Smart Yet Scattered Women, has a forward in it by Dr. Daniel Amen. He has, uh, so much groundbreaking research in the brain, and I've listened to him and read his books for a very, very long time.
(2:52) So you know that this book is gonna be really, really, really, really good, and this hour with Shanna Pearson is going to be fantastic as well. I hope that you get some tangible tools and ways to help and maybe discover if possibly your diagnosis is ADHD. Take a listen. (gentle music) Hey, quick break. Are you feeling your age a little bit? You know, joints or maybe brittle hair or face, skin. One supplement can address all of that. It's collagen, and my favorite by far is Ancient Nutrition. Collagen is the most abundant protein in the human body, so we need it, and Ancient Nutrition is my favorite because it's made from real quality ingredients that I know that I can trust. In just two scoops of their multi-collagen protein, you are getting 20 grams of protein to help support your hair, your skin, your nails, your joints, and as an added bonus, you're also getting vitamin C and probiotics.
(3:53) That's for gut and digestive health support. It's the perfect addition to any beverage. You can put it in your shake and things like that, but also overnight oats, baked goods, but I put the unflavored multi-collagen protein in my black coffee every single morning. It's perfect because it mixes really easily, and it's virtually tasteless. I especially also love their strawberry lemonade because it's very super refreshing in the summer, but whatever you need to get your collagen. (chuckles) Multi-collagen protein is more than just collagen. It's real results that you can see and feel from ingredients that you can trust. That's why I'm talking about it. Right now, you can get 25% off. You go to ancientnutrition.com and put in the code STREST25. That's S-T-R-E-S-T-2-5, STREST25 at ancientnutrition.com, and that's gonna get you 25% off sitewide.
(4:51) Make sure you grab my favorite for the dark coffee, which is your multi-collagen protein, but then also try something else as well. You're gonna love it. That's STREST25 for 25% off. Get your collagen! Welcome to StRest, Shanna. So good to see you.
Shanna Pearson (5:06): Good to see you, too. I'm glad to be here.
Kerstin Lindquist (5:09): This is your first book. That's a big thing for a researcher and an expert like you. Tell me how this process has been for you.
Shanna Pearson (5:17): Um, honestly? (laughing)
Kerstin Lindquist (5:20): Yes.
Shanna Pearson (5:21): Are you sure? This process has been a completely new learning experience. I find that... I, I feel like the most difficult part about writing a book is to take an insane amount of information and distill it into separate chapters-
Kerstin Lindquist (5:36): Yeah
Shanna Pearson (5:36): ... when all of the topics are connected to each other.
Kerstin Lindquist (5:40): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (5:41): So, like, how can you write about that and not also talk about this at the exact same time? Which I... which is also an ADHD thing, but, um, it made, made writing a book in chapters very challenging.
Kerstin Lindquist (5:52): Especially about a subject like ADHD.
Shanna Pearson (5:55): Exactly.
Kerstin Lindquist (5:55): When you came across my desk, I was very interested. Um, now, I think we, we hear ADHD, and we think a lot about children, which I'm sure we can talk about, but I'm even more interested in the adult aspect of it, and especially women in middle age.
Shanna Pearson (6:09): ... No, it's, it's, it's huge, especially women in middle age in our generation, because w- most of us weren't diagnosed as children. It wasn't done. It was, you know, mostly, uh, the disruptive boys (chuckles) were the ones who were, like, called out by their teachers-
Kerstin Lindquist (6:25): Yes
Shanna Pearson (6:25): ... and had- they had to get looked into more, and they went to the doctor. And girls in our generation, I, I would say, like, growing up in the '80s or '90s, it's just like, "She's just, you know, pretty scattered or flaky or forgetful," and yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't caught.
Kerstin Lindquist (6:40): So let's lay the groundwork just a little bit. What's the difference, people, between ADD and ADHD?
Shanna Pearson (6:45): So what was once upon a time called ADD, which is just, you know, attention deficit disorder, which I don't think it's a disorder, but, um, is now labeled ADHD-I, which is really the inattentive... Uh, you know, it's this I for inattentive, um, but they still preface it with ADHD, so it's confusing.
Kerstin Lindquist (7:07): It is.
Shanna Pearson (7:07): But ADHD-I is what a lot of women are diagnosed with, which is the inattentive part of ADHD, and, and, and that's it. And so if, if you, if you have that diagnosis, it was once called ADD.
Kerstin Lindquist (7:22): How do you know? What are some of the signs that you might have this without going into being diagnosed? 'Cause I think that that's even a far-out thing for a lot of people, especially-
Shanna Pearson (7:32): It is
Kerstin Lindquist (7:32): ... at this age.
Shanna Pearson (7:33): Yes. One of the biggest things that people need to know is that if you have ADHD, whether it's the hyperactive component or just the, uh, you know, just, just the, you know, the, the quieter form, and I don't really wanna- I don't, I don't wanna put exact labels on it, but you've had it your whole life.
Kerstin Lindquist (7:52): Mm.
Shanna Pearson (7:52): Okay? So it doesn't matter if you're inattentive or hyperactive or both, you've had it your whole life. And a lot of times, people, if they're going through... I noticed especially during COVID, if you're going through a very chaotic, stressful time in your life, and it lasts more than a few weeks, they're like, "Oh, my gosh, I think I have ADHD." But really, and, and, and you do have the symptoms (chuckles) but to know if you have ADHD, have it, think about whether you've been having these symptoms for, for your life, your lifetime. You'll go back. So a real diagnosis includes going back into your history. That's, that's it.
Kerstin Lindquist (8:25): So it isn't something that you can develop later in life, you've al- always had it?
Shanna Pearson (8:29): You've always had it.
Kerstin Lindquist (8:30): Interesting.
Shanna Pearson (8:31): You've always had it. But that being said, I mean, we probably, we probably have 100 clients that have never been... that don't actually have ADHD. They have never been- or, or they went for a diagnosis, and, and they don't have ADHD, but the tools and the management strategies and the, the systems that we use to help people with ADHD obviously help everyone who is just, you know, extremely overwhelmed and not able to go from point A to point B. It's, it's the same tools, so that's important to know. You don't need a diagnosis. It's not a medication that we're giving people.
Kerstin Lindquist (9:05): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (9:05): Yeah.
Kerstin Lindquist (9:05): What does it look like? What are clues that you have it? How do you feel? What does life look like for you?
Shanna Pearson (9:11): Okay, life for a person, especially a woman, who has ADHD, lives inside of a reality that I call everything all at once right now, and that's a term I've always used before a movie came out (chuckles) with a similar terminology. But it's everything all at the same time, instantly, which really feels like chronic, extreme overwhelm.
Kerstin Lindquist (9:36): Hmm.
Shanna Pearson (9:37): And it's like that 24/7. I mean, honestly, if you think about, like... Okay, Kerstin, when you feel overwhelmed, right, like, there's moments in your life where you're gonna be overwhelmed.
Kerstin Lindquist (9:48): Oh, yeah.
Shanna Pearson (9:49): What would you say... Are, are you productive during those periods of time? Are you, are you able to, to think, like, clearly in terms of point A to point B, or are you more, like, all over the place? How is it for you?
Kerstin Lindquist (10:01): Well, when I'm extreme overwhelm, I guess, no. I have to stop, and I have to, like, do Yoga Nidra, or I have to breathe, or I have to, like, come apart a little bit and, like, relax. But I will say that sometimes when I feel like I have too much going on, and there's overwhelm, I can get into that mode of, "Okay, I gotta do one, two, three, four, five, six. I'm gonna get it done," and then there's an end to it.
Shanna Pearson (10:22): Perfect.
Kerstin Lindquist (10:23): Does that answer your question?
Shanna Pearson (10:24): Totally. (chuckles) That's a perfect answer. So that ability, where you're like, "Okay, I'm super, super overwhelmed. Everything is happening all at the same time, and now I can break it down into one, two, three, four, five," that breaking it down because you're able to see the one, two, three, four, five, is something that people with ADHD don't have the natural ability to do. So the way that I, I phrase that for people is that we just don't... Our brains are not able to compartmentalize. So we can't take the one and separate it from the two and the three and the four and the five. It's just everything all at once, instantly, now, and so that's our reality. And that's why a lot of people with ADHD have the symptoms that everyone knows to be ADHD symptoms. Like, we can't manage our time when everything is happening all at once, right now, at the same time, right? We can't be organized. We can't manage our emotions as effectively, so because you're living in this overwhelm, so all of these symptoms that are ADHD are, are as- are a result of that.
Kerstin Lindquist (11:27): So to that end... Okay, so it's a different feeling, which you explained it so well. I love that. Um, how does it manifest itself differently in women versus men, then?
Shanna Pearson (11:38): An amazing question. Women (chuckles) have this... We're, we're, we tend to be more emotional beings in general. ADHD affects us internally more often and more, you know, I, I would say more commonly for women than it does for men. So I really wanna be careful in terms of I don't box people into anything, and so there are plenty of women that are- that have a lot of the exact same symptoms as men, and there are a lot of men who have very similar symptoms as women. So I just wanna say, in general, men tend to... their ADHD tends to be more external.... so they are more physically restless. They will do actively certain things to, to create stimulus, um, that don't work for them. So there's a little bit more substance abuse, careless, reckless behaviors.
(12:32) Driving is, is pretty common, a pretty common one. Affairs. Now, this happens for women as well, but it's more prevalent for men, and it's just really about creating- it's all- for women and men, it's about creating the stimulus, okay? So the way that men create stimulus is more in an external way, and the way that women will create the stimulus is more internal, so it's our nonstop thoughts, like, nonstop and, and ruminating over the worst possible scenario. Attracting drama into your life-
Kerstin Lindquist (13:06): Mm
Shanna Pearson (13:06): ... like, it's a magnet. So, like, you know, we all have that friend who's, like, constantly got these, like, over-the-top stories, and all of these things happen, and "I can't believe it," and, you know, "This happened, and that happened, and why do these things always happen to me?" Those tend to be signs, so it's a, it's an internal manifestation of, of stimulus creation. That's how it's different.
Kerstin Lindquist (13:27): The name of the book is Invisible ADHD, and we're gonna get into some of the management for this, but you saying all these things out loud is opening my eyes to so much. So I knew that we had ADHD in my family.
Shanna Pearson (13:39): Okay.
Kerstin Lindquist (13:40): My mom, though, my mom, who's a, a big reason behind this podcast, she, she died of dementia.
Shanna Pearson (13:46): Right.
Kerstin Lindquist (13:46): She thought that she developed, uh, de- developed it in midlife.
Shanna Pearson (13:50): Yeah.
Kerstin Lindquist (13:50): But now what I'm learning is she probably had it all along, and understanding some of the things that you're saying, I can understand that. And then there's other people in my life, men in my life, in my family-
Shanna Pearson (13:59): Yeah
Kerstin Lindquist (13:59): ... who have ADHD, who then there have been those things. There have been substance abuse and affairs, and I can- I- it just all- (laughing)
Shanna Pearson (14:08): (laughing)
Kerstin Lindquist (14:08): ... makes sense now-
Shanna Pearson (14:10): That's, yeah
Kerstin Lindquist (14:10): ... you saying this.
Shanna Pearson (14:11): Good. Good.
Kerstin Lindquist (14:12): That's amazing. How has it worked in your life? There had to be something personal with you to get to the point where you wrote a book about it.
Shanna Pearson (14:19): Well, to be honest, the... what happened with me was the personal things that were happening with me led me to get a diagnosis.
Kerstin Lindquist (14:26): Mm-hmm.
Shanna Pearson (14:26): But the book didn't- nothing led me to write the book. They approached me. The publisher approached me to write this book, and the only reason I said yes, (chuckles) because running my company is, is- can you imagine running a company that solely works with adults who have ADHD? (laughing)
Kerstin Lindquist (14:45): And you have ADHD yourself, right?
Shanna Pearson (14:47): Right. So there's nothing, there's n- there's no, like, empty space in my, in my day or, like... And I'm a mom, um, so, and a wife. (chuckles) But, like, it's just there's so much going on all the time, and then they approached me to write this book, which, as you know, um, but I certainly didn't at the time, is a full-time job.
Kerstin Lindquist (15:08): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (15:08): It's like a double-time job. And so the reason I said yes wasn't because of the something going on in my life at that time, because that's why I do what I do in general and help people. The reason I said yes and wrote this book is because I, I honestly desperately wanted as many people as possible to have this information. The only reason I wrote this book was, was, was really- there's- there are a lot of people, obviously, that can't afford coaching. I personally would not have been able to afford coaching, you know, before I- like, 20 years ago. So number one, it breaks my heart every time. Like, 'cause I see all of the forms that come in that people fill out on online of, you know, tell me...
(15:48) You know, we wanna know people's challenges 'cause we wanna have an idea of who they are, and then there's so many people with these extreme challenges, and they can't participate in our program. And I know, I know a thousand percent that our program will change their life, and that's been going on for a long time. So I can't, I can't change a lot about our company because we keep... I mean, we charge as little as possible (chuckles) which is still a lot, just to be able to pay our coaches and keep our, keep our company alive to help people. But I- the reason I said yes to writing the book is so that I could put all of the tools that we use every single day to change people's lives, and I can put it in a book and give it to people, and at a much more, you know, in a, in a more reasonable way than having to commit to a coaching program.
(16:30) So that's it. I really want everyone to have these tools.
Kerstin Lindquist (16:34): What does a coaching program look like? Let's say you're listening to this, and this is an aha moment for you, that, "Wow, this is me. How do I get- I just thought I had to take pills to go to sleep and had to keep drinking, or this was my, my reality."
Shanna Pearson (16:49): Yeah.
Kerstin Lindquist (16:49): What does, what does a coaching program look like?
Shanna Pearson (16:51): I mean, a coaching program looks differently for a lot of people. Our coaching program is extremely hands-on, very hands-on, very directive. There's a huge umbrella organization for, for coaching, and what they teach is not what we do. The big umbrella organization for general coaches is like, "You're never supposed to tell clients what to do. People always have the answers within." And I know for a fact that people with ADHD, the answers within will change based on how you feel in the moment.
Kerstin Lindquist (17:25): Mm-hmm.
Shanna Pearson (17:26): And so that's why... Like, if somebody asked me, like, "Well, what do you think you should do?" I'm gonna give you a completely different answer today versus yesterday. So we're very directive, and we're very action-oriented, so you have to do... In our program, we have people implement processes on the spot while we're in their session so that they're not, like... If we told them, "Yeah, go home and do this, and let me know how it goes next week or in two weeks," they just won't. They'll have all the best intentions, "Yeah, I'm gonna do this. This is so awesome. I'm gonna go home and, like, put this into practice," but they won't because, you know, there's a million distractions that come into their life and day, and, you know, their kids will be asking them for something, or your friend- you'll get something on your phone or whatever. So we do things on the spot to make sure that things happen every single session, at the very bare minimum, right? Versus, like, what we have them do throughout the week.
Kerstin Lindquist (18:16): It's so funny. That sounds a lot like... So 'cause I'm a certified health coach-
Shanna Pearson (18:20): Right
Kerstin Lindquist (18:20): ... but it's the same in, in, in my line, which is it's very much the answers are within them. You're just leading them.... I truly believe that people are coming to me 'cause they actually need some answers and some-
Shanna Pearson (18:32): There you go
Kerstin Lindquist (18:32): -ideas on what to do.
Shanna Pearson (18:33): Exactly.
Kerstin Lindquist (18:34): Right? And the exact same thing that you said right there, I will give people a prescription of all these things to do, and it will not get done.
Shanna Pearson (18:43): Correct.
Kerstin Lindquist (18:44): Um, so, so enacting it with them and having that accountability and doing it right there in the moment is so, so important.
Shanna Pearson (18:51): Right. It's like imagine a personal trainer.
Kerstin Lindquist (18:54): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (18:54): Imagine you wanna get in shape, and your personal trainer's like, "Kerstin, I want you to do, you know, 20 reps of this three times, et cetera, and let me know how it goes."
Kerstin Lindquist (19:03): Yeah. (laughs)
Shanna Pearson (19:04): Or, "Get down on the floor-
Kerstin Lindquist (19:06): Uh-huh
Shanna Pearson (19:06): ... and I'm watching you. I'm watching you do it."
Kerstin Lindquist (19:09): Or they say, you come to them and they're like, "Okay, what exercises do you think that you should do?" You know?
Shanna Pearson (19:15): Right, exactly. And what-
Kerstin Lindquist (19:16): "Why don't you tell me what, what, what you..." 'Cause your body is gonna go, "Nothing. My exercise is laying on the couch and having-
Shanna Pearson (19:24): Yeah
Kerstin Lindquist (19:24): ... a bag of chips." (laughs)
Shanna Pearson (19:25): Exactly. Exactly. And how would you know any differently unless you were, like, an expert in exercise? So-
Kerstin Lindquist (19:31): Right, exactly.
Shanna Pearson (19:32): Yeah.
Kerstin Lindquist (19:32): That's great.
Shanna Pearson (19:32): Yeah.
Kerstin Lindquist (19:32): I love it.
Shanna Pearson (19:33): That's it.
Kerstin Lindquist (19:33): So talk to me about-
Shanna Pearson (19:34): Actually, I have a, I have a, a phrase that I used to use. It's not on our website, but I love it, um, boot camp for your brain.
Kerstin Lindquist (19:40): That's great.
Shanna Pearson (19:41): Which is... 'Cause it's what we do. It's like on the spot implementation, you've gotta do it so that if you do nothing else this week, at least I know you've done, you know, these 10 things while we were working together.
Kerstin Lindquist (19:51): Where does biofeedback come into play? Isn't that something that people sometimes use for ADHD or no?
Shanna Pearson (19:56): It is. It is, but it's completely different than coaching. You know-
Kerstin Lindquist (19:59): Okay
Shanna Pearson (19:59): ... it's really, it's, it's, um, it's an attempt to rewire, you know, ways of thinking and the, the pauses in between things and where your attention is, right? So it helps people like... It helps to train people to focus. It's not something I promote, it's not something I do, but I definitely have clients who, who have participated in biofeedback, and some have rave reviews, and some have said it's a huge waste of their time. So that's why I don't... I think it also depends on who's doing it, who the practitioner is, too.
Kerstin Lindquist (20:31): And personal story there, so my son was diagnosed. He-
Shanna Pearson (20:35): Oh!
Kerstin Lindquist (20:35): -had some difficulties with reading.
Shanna Pearson (20:38): Okay.
Kerstin Lindquist (20:38): And so then we went through all of the diagnosis with the school and therapists and came back with... And, and you're gonna have to tell me, too, they said mild, mild ADHD. Is that a thing? Do you have a scale of... Is there a scale of?
Shanna Pearson (20:51): There's definitely people who have more severe symptoms than others, but I wanna say something about your son, even though I've never met him.
Kerstin Lindquist (20:59): Mm-hmm.
Shanna Pearson (20:59): His mild ADHD, when they're saying it's mild, that might mean he has... You know, like, the, the ADHD self- like, there's, like, a scale that they use. (laughs)
Kerstin Lindquist (21:10): Yeah. There you go.
Shanna Pearson (21:10): This is a very typical scale that you'll find in most family physicians' office, offices, and it actually only hits, in my opinion, half of the symptoms. It doesn't hit most of the symptoms that women have. But if your son, like, rarely, you know, has difficulty getting things done in order, you know, like, and he's, like, more on the, "I'm pretty good at that," you know, or if he has... If he's not as physically restless as on this scale, then it would be like, "Well, I'm not that restless," so then it would be mild. But the truth is, is he might have more extreme symptoms on the other side. Like, he might get overwhelmed to the point of being completely paralyzed, or he might act very impulsively in certain situations, right? And so there are those more extreme symptoms that aren't, aren't marked on the scales that the doctors give you. So you can have mild symptoms on some levels and more extreme symptoms-
Kerstin Lindquist (22:04): But have the other
Shanna Pearson (22:06): ... the other. Yeah.
Kerstin Lindquist (22:06): We did... So of course, and I wanna talk about this piece as well, you know, the guidance is always like, "Well, you can go on medication."
Shanna Pearson (22:12): Mm-hmm.
Kerstin Lindquist (22:13): They recommended biofeedback to try that.
Shanna Pearson (22:15): Okay.
Kerstin Lindquist (22:15): And it's always with, "if you can afford it," because it's-
Shanna Pearson (22:18): Yeah
Kerstin Lindquist (22:18): ... way expensive-
Shanna Pearson (22:19): It is
Kerstin Lindquist (22:20): ... and super time-consuming.
Shanna Pearson (22:21): Yes.
Kerstin Lindquist (22:22): So we did do that, and we felt it was very, very successful with him-
Shanna Pearson (22:26): Great, yeah
Kerstin Lindquist (22:27): ... as a seven-year-old and eight-year-old. But my point in that is the medication part. I feel like, as well, with my mom in middle age when she decided that she had ADHD, which I don't even know if she was diagnosed, she went on medication. So that seems to be what everybody used to do. I didn't even hear about coaching. It was like, "Oh, just go on a pill."
Shanna Pearson (22:47): Yep, that was it. It's like, "Here's your prescription." Back then, it would've been, like, most of the time, it would've been Ritalin, right? That was like-
Kerstin Lindquist (22:53): Yeah
Shanna Pearson (22:53): ... the main, the main-
Kerstin Lindquist (22:53): Right
Shanna Pearson (22:53): ... the main one. Yeah.
Kerstin Lindquist (22:55): So how does that play in these days? What are your thoughts?
Shanna Pearson (22:58): So I have- I have some pretty, um, some pretty big thoughts on medication.
Kerstin Lindquist (23:04): That's what we love.
Shanna Pearson (23:05): It's interesting, like, I used to be very anti-medication, and I'm not anymore.
Kerstin Lindquist (23:09): Mm-hmm.
Shanna Pearson (23:09): Because I've heard way too many success stories about, you know, medication changing people's lives on such a huge way, and it's thank God for that. You know, truly, like, we, we have these medications. If you use them responsibly, and you get it from your doctor, and you're on the right dosage, there's nothing wrong with it. It's when people abuse it, where it becomes... Like, that's where all the stigma comes from. But the ADHD medications that are most commonly prescribed are stimulants. And remember I was saying before, it's like we are always, like, looking for ways to create stimulus.
Kerstin Lindquist (23:48): Mm-hmm.
Shanna Pearson (23:49): Right? So the way that women create stimulus versus how men create stimulus, that's the whole thing around ADHD, is we need more stimulus because we don't have as much, you know, naturally. There's, like, lower amounts of dopamine. So the medication gives you the stimulant, the stimulus in your brain, and it helps you focus. However, the medication does not help you focus on the right things-
Kerstin Lindquist (24:11): Right
Shanna Pearson (24:11): ... and that's a big deal. So you can have ADHD and be on the exact right amount of, of your medication, and you are amazing at being able to focus, but you've noticed at the end of the day that you are super laser focused on your Twitter feed for, like, five hours instead of getting anything done. And so it puts you in that hyperfocus mode.... but it doesn't help you manage anything. So that's why I'm obviously a (chuckles) huge believer in, in, you know, the, the, the skills and the tools alongside the medication, and that seems to be an excellent recipe.
Kerstin Lindquist (24:49): So that's my question then. Is that kind of where you go? Like, "Sure, let's try medication with you, but let's also do therapy."
Shanna Pearson (24:57): I don't even touch medication 'cause I'm not a doctor. People, when they are diagnosed with ADHD, likely that's the first and only remedy that they'll get is a prescription. So they've got that under- they've got that, and that, and that's between them and their doctor. We help people remember to take their medication. We help people figure out their- what- the- whether their side effects are a result of too high of a dose or too low of a dose. So, you know, we can help people go back to their doctor and talk about important talking points for the medication, but that's pretty much where we, where we stop, and all we do is the skills.
Kerstin Lindquist (25:38): So what are some of them? Give me a couple. Give me some methods that we'll learn in the book on how to manage this. Invisible ADHD is the name of the book.
Shanna Pearson (25:47): Um, there's over 100 tools in this book, which I think-
Kerstin Lindquist (25:50): Wow
Shanna Pearson (25:50): ... is way too much, but I couldn't stop. Actually, that was me, like, cutting it down 'cause it was, like, 20,000 words over at one point. (chuckles)
Kerstin Lindquist (25:57): That's me, too!
Shanna Pearson (25:58): (chuckles) Right?
Kerstin Lindquist (25:59): Every single time my publisher's back, she's like, "Contractually, we're at 50,000, and you are at 70. We need to cut this." I'm like, "Argh!"
Shanna Pearson (26:06): That's exactly what happened. (chuckles) So I had to take out a bunch of stuff, but I left the... I left the... You know, everything in this book has been proven with thousands and thousands of people. There's no guesswork here. There's no like, "Oh, well, this worked for me. Let me share it with you" This- what's in this book has worked for thousands, and so, like, I would say some of the simplest, some of the simplest tools for, for people who have ADHD is to really start knowing your own rhythm because we're very mood-based. We're incredibly mood-based, so what we do on a day-to-day basis tends to be a result of how we feel. So if you know when you're, like, feeling your best during the day, and you're at your, like, highest energy level, and you're, like, your more productive state, like, whatever time of day that is for you, that's when you need to start scheduling your toughest, hardest, most brain-intensive tasks, and which is actually the opposite of what most people do. I'll just let you know.
Kerstin Lindquist (27:05): Right.
Shanna Pearson (27:06): 'Cause for a lot of us-
Kerstin Lindquist (27:07): Right
Shanna Pearson (27:07): ... our more productive times are, like, right in the morning, and for so many people, their morning time is spent, like, scrolling through their phone and checking yesterday's emails and, like, you know, hanging out and just, like, starting to get into their day. But that's actually, for a lot of us, that's, like, our best time to, like, when our brains are most on.
Kerstin Lindquist (27:26): That's totally me.
Shanna Pearson (27:26): And then there's a time of day-
Kerstin Lindquist (27:28): Right.
Shanna Pearson (27:28): Yeah.
Kerstin Lindquist (27:28): That's totally me-
Shanna Pearson (27:29): So-
Kerstin Lindquist (27:29): ... and I've actually started, I've started scheduling podcasts, appointments, meetings, like 10:30 or later, 'cause I'm up at, like, 5:00 or 6:00. I'm, I'm, I- and I'm creative then, and I'm like, "This is when we're just gonna get the stuff done," and I'm not-
Shanna Pearson (27:45): Yes
Kerstin Lindquist (27:45): ... gonna go on social media, and I'm not gonna answer emails-
Shanna Pearson (27:48): (chuckles)
Kerstin Lindquist (27:48): ... until after 9:30 'cause I'm gonna get this stuff done.
Shanna Pearson (27:51): Pretty good.
Kerstin Lindquist (27:51): But it's taken a while for me to train myself to do that.
Shanna Pearson (27:55): Right. So and you're a, a, a super capable non-ADHD woman.
Kerstin Lindquist (28:00): Yeah. (chuckles) Exactly.
Shanna Pearson (28:01): So, so those are the types of things that we, that we'll help you with. I call it mood scheduling, because mood scheduling, everything we do, and when you know that everything you do is based on your mood, um, you can start to own it and be like, "I'm gonna do... You know, the, the hardest things that I have to do are gonna be at this time of day," whatever that time of day is for you. And, you know, the super easy, mundane tasks are gonna be when I'm at my, at my lower energy times, when I don't need to be so on, to actually do that on purpose. And there's, you know, there's, there's so many, there's so many things we can do. There's a lot of (exhales) there's a lot of mood management, um, that we, that we do in our program for men and women, (chuckles) because men are not absent from the whole mood regulation difficulties that people with ADHD have.
(28:46) They experience it just as much. To really be able to have more of a control over what you tell yourself and, and how you're feeling, we have, you know, we have something, and I, and I talk about it in the book, uh, really about focusing on, on the fact- focusing on the facts, not on the what-ifs and the, "Well, you never know," and, "This could happen." But really, it's a, it's a training. It's, like, really a type of brain training where you're only focused on what is and what did happen. Kerstin, like, was that good or bad? And you might feel like, well, that was really bad, but then we look at what all of the things that happened during that time, and you'll notice that there were, like, 15 fantastic things that happened and one really awful thing that happened, factually.
(29:33) And you can see, like, it's like taking yourself out of your brain and looking at everything much more objectively, um, is really key for people who have ADHD. Because when you have a everything all at once right now brain, there is no objectivity. Like, that one bad thing will completely take you over, and you will forget about the 15 fantastic things that happened. So we have people, you know, write down the facts of, of- events, and I feel like that takes it out of your brain, it puts it into something outside of you, and you're able to, you're able to look at that and be like: "Wow, that was really great!" (chuckles)
Kerstin Lindquist (30:09): Yeah, what about a technique or a tool or a strategy in connection to i- in to- in connection to that ruminating brain? 'Cause this is what I hear so much from especially women in middle-aged, "I, I can't sleep, my brain never turns off. I'm constantly full of anxiety and stress and worry." Um, s- and that could be people who don't have ADHD as well, but especially I would think that would be even harder for somebody who does have ADHD.
Shanna Pearson (30:34): It is. Y- you might hate this, but honestly (laughing) ... I don't even, I don't actually think you're gonna hate this. I think a lot of people are gonna not like the sound of this. When you have a brain that just won't shut up- (chuckles)
Kerstin Lindquist (30:48): Yeah
Shanna Pearson (30:49): ... um, one of the best tools that you can do is to start moving your body. And yes, that includes if you're up in the middle of the night with ruminating thoughts that just won't turn off. 'Cause it's like the energy has to go somewhere. The energy has to go because you've got all this, like, incredibly, like, high frequency of God knows what-ness going on internally. You have to get up and move the energy. So I refer to that, and it's in the book, as physical state changes, and it's really like taking the energy from here, if it's, like, driving you up the wall, and putting it into something else, whether it's a physical exercise or... Not a fast- I'm not talking about going jogging in the middle of the night.
(31:32) I'm talking about going up and down the stairs, like, like, for, for three minutes as fast as you can, or doing, you know, some- for some people, physical state changes would be singing a song, standing up. Just stand up and sing a song. Now, obviously, you're not gonna do this in the middle of the night, but if you're sitting in the middle of the day and you have something that just won't go away in your brain, you could totally change your mental state if you stand up and sing something, whether it's a song or a prayer or a poem or whatever it is that connects you to you and to your heart, that's something that's, like, incredibly effective. A physical state change can also be something that shocks you in terms of, like, really wakes you up and takes you out of a zone.
(32:16) Some of our clients love this, and you're- and this is, like, painful, but if you suck on a mint, like a menthol mint, and then you drink a glass of cold water, (chuckles) it's a huge-
Kerstin Lindquist (32:28): Wow
Shanna Pearson (32:28): ... wake-up for your brain, and it is a very big distractor in a good way from ruminating thoughts. And it's- you have to try these things to know that they're not as wacky as they sound. They actually work.
Kerstin Lindquist (32:40): I'm literally writing that down. So suck on a mint-
Shanna Pearson (32:43): And then drink water.
Kerstin Lindquist (32:45): And drink a whole glass of water.
Shanna Pearson (32:46): And that, and it knocks you out-
Kerstin Lindquist (32:46): I can see how that would work, though. Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (32:48): It knocks you out of a state. Um, and so these are... I mean, these are just a few examples. There are so many that... And, and some work- some will always go to that one, and others will never go near that one (chuckles) and do something else. They'll just go outside-
Kerstin Lindquist (33:01): Well, it sounds
Shanna Pearson (33:02): ... and sit and, you know, hug a tree.
Kerstin Lindquist (33:03): It's very similar into, into what I research, 'cause I research stress and acute stress, so, like, being chased by a bear stress, which sometimes our brain changes. We're not actually being changed- race- chased by a bear, but that email we got leads us to believe that we are.
Shanna Pearson (33:18): Right.
Kerstin Lindquist (33:18): And so some of the ways that you kick yourself out of that is, the best one, is face in cold ice water, but you put your hands in cold ice water, too.
Shanna Pearson (33:25): Yes!
Kerstin Lindquist (33:25): And so those sound very similar to what you're talking about.
Shanna Pearson (33:28): Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Kerstin Lindquist (33:30): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (33:30): And, and, and very practical, because if you're in an office environment, it's gonna be hard to put your face in cold ice water.
Kerstin Lindquist (33:36): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (33:36): Right?
Kerstin Lindquist (33:37): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (33:37): And if you're a kid in school (chuckles) or in the middle of any, i- it's some of those things are, are, are more, like, are less practical, but if you're home, do it.
Kerstin Lindquist (33:46): On stress, we talk a lot about supporting the systems in your life that hold you up, your habits, your routines, sleep, but that also includes your feet. Remember that song we used to sing? Knee bone connected to the hip bone. That's not right, but you know what I'm- where I'm going with this, right? (chuckles) It's all connected, and it starts with your feet. And if you're like me, you probably sacrificed comfort to style more times than you can count. I was able to join Revitalign when I worked at QVC to create really, really great shoes, flip-flops, sandals for you for many years, and now they are a sponsor of StRest. I love this brand. My entire family wears them. It's all about aligning your body from the ground up, literally, but also doing it with super cute styles.
(34:36) I wear them around the house, on long days of filming, even traveling, of course, down at the beach, and the difference is my body feels better at the end of the day, and that's what I want for you as well. Going into a new season, make sure you get yourself new, good shoes, and we have a discount for you. Visit wacoshoecompany.com. That's W-A-C-O shoecompany.com, and enter the code KERSTIN, K-E-R-S-T-I-N, 20, for 20% off everything from really cute wedges, to boots, to sneakers. Get out there and get your sneakers. That's Waco Shoe Company, wacoshoecompany.com, and put in the code KERSTIN20, K-E-R-S-T-I-N 20, so you get 20% off and support yourself from the ground up.
Shanna Pearson (35:30): You know, one of the state changes I talk about in my book, like I've- I think I've got... I don't remember how many I put in the book, but it's at least 15. If you work from home, go take a shower, like a really short one, and go time yourself-
Kerstin Lindquist (35:42): Yeah
Shanna Pearson (35:42): ... and take a three or two-minute shower. Just do it, and it doesn't have to be ice cold, but talk about a state change. And then you come out of the shower, and you're dried off, and you get dressed again, and you are definitely in a different, in a different state mentally. But again, that's very impractical if you're in an office environment. (chuckles)
Kerstin Lindquist (35:59): That's true.
Shanna Pearson (35:59): So that's why there's so many others-
Kerstin Lindquist (36:01): So
Shanna Pearson (36:01): ... that you can do.
Kerstin Lindquist (36:02): ... Back to that, okay, physical state change, so then people who have ADHD, is exercise a good tool for them? Should they be exercising-
Shanna Pearson (36:12): Totally
Kerstin Lindquist (36:12): -more to help this?
Shanna Pearson (36:14): I am a huge advocate for physical exercise, so yes. The answer is yes. However-
Kerstin Lindquist (36:19): Good
Shanna Pearson (36:19): ... a lot of people are very averse to that.
Kerstin Lindquist (36:21): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (36:21): And power to them. They're allowed to be averse to anything they want, but the fact is, is that exercise creates... It's, it's stimulus.
Kerstin Lindquist (36:31): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (36:31): It engages you, and I- my, my- the saying that I use with our clients is, "The best way to get out of your, to get out of your head, is to get into your body." And so when you're, when, when, when what's going on in your mind is distracting you from doing the things you need to do, from getting work done, from being, you know, just distracting you, period, if you exercise, you can focus. And for me, I learned that, I guess, by accident when I was in university. I had a very hard time in school.
Kerstin Lindquist (37:03): Mm.
Shanna Pearson (37:03): I'm relatively intelligent. I'm not, like, super genius in any way, (chuckles) but I'm smart enough, and I always got grades that were not great. I somehow got into a university, (chuckles) and I had a hard time in, in university. And what I started doing, I think, saved my life, and it was just... I just- I don't know how or why I started doing this, but I started taking my textbooks to the gym, and I would get on an exercise bike, and I don't- like, they had, like, those magazine racks where everybody was, you know, reading. The girls were usually reading, like, fashion magazines, and the guys were like, Sports Illustrated or whatever. And I would take my textbooks and put them on the magazine rack, and with my highlighter, 'cause this is a long time ago, I would just, like, I would ride an exercise bike while I was highlighting in my book and learning-
Kerstin Lindquist (37:50): Wow
Shanna Pearson (37:50): ... and studying. And for whatever reason, all of the information stayed in my head. Like, it absorbed it. My brain was like a sponge when I was working out, and so I've- I'm, I'm- I love doing that. I still do that if I have to, like, learn something or remember or memorize something. But for whatever reason, the, the stimulus that's created while we're exercising helps us focus, it helps us pay attention, and it, it just helps us feel better.
Kerstin Lindquist (38:17): Which makes a whole lot of sense-
Shanna Pearson (38:19): As well as, you know, helps and all of that.
Kerstin Lindquist (38:19): Right. I find-
Shanna Pearson (38:22): Yeah
Kerstin Lindquist (38:22): ... you know, anecdotally, but I know that there are studies out there as well, that when I'm walking or when I'm running or when I'm exercising, that's when the thoughts come, like, "Oh, you know, I feel like I have to write things down. Oh, this is how I'm gonna solve that problem." You know, go for a walk-
Shanna Pearson (38:34): Exactly
Kerstin Lindquist (38:34): ... if you've got a problem to solve. And it's that, it's that mind-body connection, and it's opening up- literally opening up oxygen to your brain that is gonna help with that.
Shanna Pearson (38:44): Right. Right, exactly.
Kerstin Lindquist (38:47): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (38:47): It does, and it c- and it, and it's, and it's stimulating. So your brain is now in a, in an optimal state, and when you have ADHD-
Kerstin Lindquist (38:53): Yeah
Shanna Pearson (38:53): ... it's a way to purposefully put it in that state, is by, is by moving your body. If you're somebody who doesn't love to exercise, which there's plenty of people who, who don't, just try- just put your shoes on. Don't have the intention of going to the gym. Don't have the intention of going for a run or anything like that, 'cause, like, (chuckles) some- like, that's like a... A lot of us just don't do that. Just put your shoes on and go outside.
Kerstin Lindquist (39:17): Great.
Shanna Pearson (39:17): That's a beautiful state change-
Kerstin Lindquist (39:19): Yeah, just get outside
Shanna Pearson (39:19): ... and it's going- just go outside with your shoes on. That's it.
Kerstin Lindquist (39:24): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (39:24): And, and-
Kerstin Lindquist (39:25): Yeah
Shanna Pearson (39:25): ... you know, after you do that for, you know, every day for a week, you might wanna... You know, you might wanna walk, you might not, but, but it's going- things are going to start flowing and happening just by starting with that tiny, little first step.
Kerstin Lindquist (39:39): Give me a couple more-
Shanna Pearson (39:39): Which is much easier. It's much easier to imagine putting your shoes on than to be like, "Yeah, I'm gonna go to the gym to work out for an hour."
Kerstin Lindquist (39:45): Absolutely.
Shanna Pearson (39:46): Yeah, not gonna happen.
Kerstin Lindquist (39:47): Yeah, absolutely.
Shanna Pearson (39:47): Just put your shoes on. That's it.
Kerstin Lindquist (39:50): Give me a few more kind of clues in terms of how my relationships might be impacted, my self-esteem, or my con- uh, confidence, if I'm somebody who's not sure if I have ADHD but is thinking now, listening to this, that maybe I do, and I need to go get help.
Shanna Pearson (40:04): People, um... Because people who have ADHD have a hard time regulating our emotions, we tend to have difficulty in relationships.
Kerstin Lindquist (40:15): Hmm.
Shanna Pearson (40:15): So I would say, if you're self-aware enough to know (chuckles) that a lot of the people in your life feel the need to walk on eggshells around you, that's a really big clue.
Kerstin Lindquist (40:26): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (40:26): Um, a lot of us are not that self-aware. (chuckles) We're like, "No, nobody has that problem with me." (chuckles) But some of us get it, like, oh, that's why your parents or your siblings or the people you work with, everyone has to be careful around you, that's a clue. Um, if you already know that you have a hard time regulating your moods and emotions, and you're always feeling overwhelmed, like, always feeling overwhelmed, like you just don't know what to do, and you just don't know how to start, that is a huge clue. And I should s- I really, I really want everyone to know, if you feel that you might have ADHD, go to an ADHD specialist and get a diagnosis, because the fact is, today, like right now, in 2025, still, if you tell your family physician, um, that you're not feeling great about yourself, and your relationships, you know, are in a bad place, and your life isn't working and all of these things, and you don't feel good, um, they will give you an ins- they'll give you, like, um, one of those, like, scale- like, assessment scales, diagnostic scales, um, for
(41:35) depression and anxiety. So this is really important for women to know, because so many women are misdiagnosed with depression and anxiety who actually have ADHD.
Kerstin Lindquist (41:45): Hmm.
Shanna Pearson (41:45): And the reason is, there's a reason for this. Okay, so I have, I have a questionnaire here, and this is, this is what they give you at the... And I want, I want everyone to see this, 'cause... And this might feel familiar to you. If you've ever known anyone to go get- you know, to, uh, who went to their family physician, they got a piece of paper that they themselves had to fill in, not the doctor, they did. So, like, you fill it in yourself, so this is completely subjective. And, and it, it asks you, like, "I'm feeling down. Am I feeling down, um, several days, more than half the days?" Well, if you had ADHD-
Kerstin Lindquist (42:17): Oh, yeah
Shanna Pearson (42:17): ... and it's unmanaged-
Kerstin Lindquist (42:18): seen those questionnaires
Shanna Pearson (42:18): ... and your life isn't working, you're gonna feel down. "I have trouble falling or staying asleep?"... That's like 80% (chuckles) of people who have ADHD would be like, "Nearly every day, I, I have a poor appetite or I overeat." This is the, this is the, the PHQ-9 is, is the, is the big, you know, depression self-assessment tool. So these are the questions that they ask, but the symptoms totally overlap with ADHD. So a person with ADHD is gonna be on a high level of this depression scale.
Kerstin Lindquist (42:52): Hmm.
Shanna Pearson (42:52): But it doesn't mean that they are depressed. It just means that they answered all of these questions according to how they feel in the moment, which is gonna be like, "Oh, being so fidgety or restless that you, that you, that you can't slow down," like, that's one of the things on the depression scale. People with ADHD are- tend to be restless and, and fidgety, and so, you know, feeling bad about yourself. These are all, these are all ve- not all- not every single one of these questions, but 90% of them are all the answers that, like, a person with ADHD would say nearly every day. So you will then be diagnosed with depression because of how you answered those questions, and it's also the same with anxiety.
(43:31) Anxiety scale is the same thing. It's where it's like a lot of this is ADHD, you know, and it overlaps so heavily. So that's why if you think you might have ADHD because you've been living with a highly overwhelmed brain for your entire life, and you have had a very hard time going from point A to point B, and you're... It almost feels like you're paralyzed. Like, I call it deer in cotton headlights syndrome.
Kerstin Lindquist (43:56): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (43:56): Like, and that that's how you feel, and you just don't know where to begin, and that's why you are always late, and that's why you procrastinate and all of that, go to a person who specializes in ADHD, and they will give you a proper ADHD assessment, and then you'll know whether this is ADHD, or was it anxiety or depression? But I think it's, it's unbelievable how much of the anxiety and depression scales overlap. This is the anxiety one, the GAD-7, how much they overlap with ADHD symptoms, and that is why so many women are, are being missed and being misdiagnosed.
Kerstin Lindquist (44:33): Is there more these days, or has our world kind of made us all think possibly we have (chuckles) ADHD?
Shanna Pearson (44:41): Oh, my gosh, yes. Like, I, I thi- there's nobody I talk to these days where they're like, "Oh, my God, I think I have ADHD," right? But it's- there isn't... I don't think there's more, but-
Kerstin Lindquist (44:55): Hmm
Shanna Pearson (44:55): ... the more we're able to properly diagnose people, for example-
Kerstin Lindquist (44:59): Yeah
Shanna Pearson (44:59): ... 10 years ago, 100 women may have been diagnosed with anxiety who actually have ADHD, and so now that we're figuring that out, they'll be like: "Well, those 100 women are now, now have ADHD. There's more ADHD." But there isn't. It just needs to be properly diagnosed. Maybe there was more anxiety than there needed to be, like, diagnoses, you know? Like, now everyone needs to go through an, an anxiety diagnosis just to go to their yearly checkup.
Kerstin Lindquist (45:28): Right.
Shanna Pearson (45:28): Right? So if you're feeling anxious that day, you might be di- you know, they might be like: "Well, you have anxiety," and that's... But it's not that. It's all about the diagnosis. So I don't think there's actually more ADHD. I just think we're learning more about it, and we're able to hopefully find it for people so that they can be properly- they can properly manage their own symptoms, rather than taking-
Kerstin Lindquist (45:48): Yeah
Shanna Pearson (45:48): ... an antidepressant when they're not actually depressed.
Kerstin Lindquist (45:51): So, so true. But I would say-
Shanna Pearson (45:53): Which by the way, is depressing. Yeah.
Kerstin Lindquist (45:56): It is, absolutely. But I will say-
Shanna Pearson (45:58): Yeah
Kerstin Lindquist (45:58): ... I feel like this world is making us all a little bit more overwhelmed, anxious, and so more, you know, quote-unquote, "ADHD" because of the world we live in. Like, for instance, you don't even do social media, is that right?
Shanna Pearson (46:10): I don't. I don't. I think it's so (chuckles) ... I think it's amazing, and I'm, I'm really, like, kind of blown away by the fact that we've been able to grow our company the way we have without any social media.
Kerstin Lindquist (46:19): Mm-hmm.
Shanna Pearson (46:19): It's, it's sort of like, no- everyone swears that you need it, need it, and there's nothing inherently wrong with social media. But I don't, I don't think it's as necessary as people think. But I mean, you know, you are as successful as you are because of, you know, social media, and you are able to teach people and to show people amazing things through social media. So it's not-
Kerstin Lindquist (46:42): Right
Shanna Pearson (46:42): ... social media is not wrong. It's just not something I do because it's super distracting, and it, it would totally derail me from, from what I need to be doing-
Kerstin Lindquist (46:51): I would believe that-
Shanna Pearson (46:52): ... which is, you know, running my company.
Kerstin Lindquist (46:53): Yeah. Would that one of those tools that you would give people is maybe you cut out the social media at least half the time? 'Cause that has to be horrible-
Shanna Pearson (47:01): Yeah
Kerstin Lindquist (47:01): ... for somebody with ADHD.
Shanna Pearson (47:03): Yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty toxic. It's-
Kerstin Lindquist (47:05): Yeah (chuckles)
Shanna Pearson (47:05): ... it's really hard to get off of it if you have ADHD, and you're in, and you're on... You're, you're on social media. It's hard to be like: "Well, I've had my 20 minutes. Now I must go back to my work." That's very difficult. It's like, why... You know, you wouldn't, if, if you ever had a, a problem with, with alcohol, you wouldn't go sit in a bar.
Kerstin Lindquist (47:24): Right.
Shanna Pearson (47:24): It's, it's just not a healthy place for you to be. (chuckles) It's like-
Kerstin Lindquist (47:28): Right
Shanna Pearson (47:28): ... don't do that.
Kerstin Lindquist (47:29): Exactly.
Shanna Pearson (47:29): Some people have no problem sitting in a bar and, you know, having a glass of water even. But a person with ADHD, it's, it's really important to put, um, sy- (chuckles) systems in place to regulate the amount of time that you spend on social media.
Kerstin Lindquist (47:45): Mm-hmm.
Shanna Pearson (47:45): And, and if you are unable to regulate it, then, then, you know, just try going off it for a bit and see how you feel. See how you feel. Don't worry about how much you do. See how you feel, because everyone that's ever gone on a social media diet, (chuckles) and like our clients, always feel happier when there-
Kerstin Lindquist (48:07): Always
Shanna Pearson (48:07): ... when there's less social media.
Kerstin Lindquist (48:09): Yeah. Yeah, and I take-
Shanna Pearson (48:11): Yeah
Kerstin Lindquist (48:11): ... at least 21 days off at a time, and then I go off... I mean, I know it doesn't like anything, but I have one, what I call dark day, where I'm just not on it at all. Those days of the week, I feel better. That month of the year when I do it, I feel better. I- it's highly recommend it, and this is comes from a girl who makes a living-
Shanna Pearson (48:29): Yeah
Kerstin Lindquist (48:30): ... off social media, so.
Shanna Pearson (48:31): ... (chuckles) Exactly. It's- well, it's like anything. It's like chocolate, okay?
Kerstin Lindquist (48:36): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (48:36): Chocolate is amazing-
Kerstin Lindquist (48:38): It is
Shanna Pearson (48:38): ... but you can't, like, gorge yourself on chocolate (chuckles) every day. You won't be healthy, you won't look good, and you won't feel good. But definitely don't eliminate chocolate. There's nothing wrong with chocolate. I'm a h- I'm a huge believer in chocolate, but it's-
Kerstin Lindquist (48:50): It's awesome
Shanna Pearson (48:50): ... everything in moderation, like, you know?
Kerstin Lindquist (48:52): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (48:53): Yeah, 100%. You have to manage it.
Kerstin Lindquist (48:55): Question that I ask everybody at the end of the podcast is one thing that everybody can do to kind of mitigate their stress right now, but I would like to spin that a little bit for you. As somebody who has ADHD, what are some non-negotiables and things that you do every day to manage your stress and your health and your wellness that people could learn from?
Shanna Pearson (49:14): Oh, yeah. Um, the most important thing that you could do is to try to do less, honestly-
Kerstin Lindquist (49:19): Hmm
Shanna Pearson (49:19): ... and, and that will enable you to do more. So when if you have a, an everything-all-at-once-right-now brain, which whether you have ADHD or not, a lot of us have that type of brain, then if you just focus on, on one or two things at a time, versus looking at your entire to-do list, which is often, like, more than 20 items long for most people-
Kerstin Lindquist (49:43): Mm-hmm
Shanna Pearson (49:43): ... and you just, like, narrow it in and focus on that one or two things and that's it, like, cover up the rest of them or put them on a different- put them on a different sheet of paper, that helps so much because visually you only see the, the one or two things that you need to be doing at that time. It helps you be present because you're not actually seeing all of the other things that you have to be doing later, and, um, and it, it really takes away a lot of that, a lot of the overwhelm of the too-muchness. So-
Kerstin Lindquist (50:13): That's great
Shanna Pearson (50:13): ... to start, like, just start setting yourself up so that you've only got one or two things in front of you.
Kerstin Lindquist (50:19): Fantastic. The name of the book is Invisible ADHD: Proven Mood and Life Management for Smart Yet Scattered Women. How much do I love the title, Smart Yet Scattered Women?
Shanna Pearson (50:30): (laughing)
Kerstin Lindquist (50:30): Because... y- just because, you know, and maybe you're discovering this in this last hour, you're discovering, "Wow, maybe I need to go get tested for ADHD," it doesn't mean that you're not smart. It's just, it- and it's probably-
Shanna Pearson (50:41): Oh, my goodness. It's almost the opposite
Kerstin Lindquist (50:41): ... allows- yeah, it allows you to be brighter and open your brain in different ways. It just needs to be managed.
Shanna Pearson (50:47): Exactly. It's extremely- everybody needs to know that ADHD is manageable-
Kerstin Lindquist (50:52): Mm-hmm
Shanna Pearson (50:52): ... period. It just is, and I know that for a fact because of what I do and how many people we've been able to help. So it is manageable, but you have to know what to do. You know, and, and what other people do who don't have ADHD will not necessarily work for you, so it has to be an ADHD-friendly tool or technique, and it will work. You will notice that your life becomes simpler and easier, and you're able to be more present and grounded in yourself, and it- just feel better and, honestly, also get more done. So-
Kerstin Lindquist (51:23): Before I let you go, I-
Shanna Pearson (51:23): I mean, uh, we have so many tools in the book.
Kerstin Lindquist (51:25): Yeah, over 100, by the way, which is why you need this book. But before I let you go, just the researcher in me wants to know, is there- are there any other conditions or things that are linked to people who have ADHD? Like you mentioned, addiction is more prevalent in people who have ADHD. Is there anything else? Are we seeing this linked to any other medical condition or chronic diseases or anything later in life if you have ADHD?
Shanna Pearson (51:49): I don't think it's, um, necessarily linked to chronic diseases. For sure, women, there's a much higher percentage of women with- who, who experience PMDD, like-
Kerstin Lindquist (52:00): Hmm
Shanna Pearson (52:00): ... premenstrual, like, dysphoria.
Kerstin Lindquist (52:02): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (52:03): Where during that time of the month, you are losing your mind.
Kerstin Lindquist (52:08): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (52:08): That is much more prevalent in the ADHD population. Also, rejection sensitivity dysphoria, which is a new, (chuckles) a new understanding of extreme sensitivity to rejection, um, that's just kind of been... It's being talked about a lot in the last few years. Um, that is a lot more prevalent in the ADHD population as well. So these are things that, you know, if you notice that this is, like, you experience that, it could be linked to ADHD.
Kerstin Lindquist (52:40): Sure.
Shanna Pearson (52:40): In terms of other, like, diseases or, or, or, you know... I would say I, I don't think so. I don't think so.
Kerstin Lindquist (52:49): But addictive, addictive-
Shanna Pearson (52:50): Divorce tends to happen higher.
Kerstin Lindquist (52:51): Yeah. Divorce, addictive personalities, you know, so I, I guess that would be alcohol, food, shopping could even be one, I guess, addictive-
Shanna Pearson (52:58): Right
Kerstin Lindquist (52:58): ... personalities.
Shanna Pearson (53:00): Oh, absolutely, because we're not able to effectively regulate.
Kerstin Lindquist (53:04): Yeah.
Shanna Pearson (53:04): We, we have a hard time regulating our emotions, and so there's a whole slew (chuckles) of, like, what could possibly happen in a human being who has a hard time regulating, you know-
Kerstin Lindquist (53:14): Yeah
Shanna Pearson (53:14): ... anything, let alone their emotions? You'll get into- you can get into a lot of, a lot of trouble. You can end up with a lot of drama. You can, you can just end up with a lot of, a lot of upset-
Kerstin Lindquist (53:25): Yeah, absolutely
Shanna Pearson (53:25): ... in your life, where every day feels upsetting, and that does not need to be the case. Like, you don't deserve that. You can manage this. You can, you can learn ways to manage your mood in an ADHD-friendly way, which is, you know, to really, like, simplify and, and to create more calm, and to, honestly, as scary as it sounds, do less. But you have to know that by doing less at a time, you end up doing more. It's really important-
Kerstin Lindquist (53:53): Yeah, that's so important
Shanna Pearson (53:53): ... for people to know that, 'cause everyone's afraid, "If I do less, my life's gonna fall apart."
Kerstin Lindquist (53:57): Right.
Shanna Pearson (53:57): No, it won't.
Kerstin Lindquist (53:58): No.
Shanna Pearson (53:58): It will get better, and you will be happier, (chuckles) and your relationships will improve, like, all of it.
Kerstin Lindquist (54:03): Yeah, great.
Shanna Pearson (54:03): So there's, you know, there's, there's ways to actually go from, from where you are to where you wanna be.
Kerstin Lindquist (54:09): This is a very important information, and everybody needs to... If you suspect that you have ADHD, get some help, get diagnosed, get the book. I think that a lot of these tools we can all use, even if you don't have ADHD, just in this world that we live in right now. It's called Invisible ADHD: Proven-
Shanna Pearson (54:24): Right
Kerstin Lindquist (54:24): ... Mood and Life Management for Smart Yet Scattered Women. And since you aren't on social media, where do people find you? How do we connect?
Shanna Pearson (54:31): Um, you can find me on my website. I do have that, at adhdcoaching.com.... and when the book comes out, it will be invisibleadhd.com, but for now, adhdcoaching.com is where to find me. And, um, if you have ADHD or if you think you do, um, and you need help going from point A to point B, or just feeling more, you know, (chuckles) more in line with who you are and who you know you wanna be, then that's, you know, that's what we do. That's where we, that's where we- we literally hold your hand and take you. We don't expect you to just go off and, and do these things by yourself after you've heard a few things. Just people need to be guided, and I think that's really important, and supported. I mean, that's everything.
Kerstin Lindquist (55:14): Yeah, it's great.
Shanna Pearson (55:16): So, yeah.
Kerstin Lindquist (55:16): Thank you so much for spending this time with us. You've been so, so helpful. I think a lot of women are- our eyes are opening up to what's going on in their lives, and men, too, who are listening, so thank you so much.
Shanna Pearson (55:27): You're welcome, Kerstin. It was good to meet you.
Kerstin Lindquist (55:29): Coming up on the next episode of StRest: So you know those T-shirts that say all the inspirational messages, or maybe you're like me and you have the things around the house? It's because the Lord tells us that we need to ponder lovely things. We need to be consistently focusing on what is good, what is pure, what is true. Well, my next guest is that kind of incarnate. She created this brand called Peace Love World, and you know how much I love talking about the peace of the Lord. This brand of clothing and apparel and home that you'll find on QVC, but also has an amazing story from when she started this business when her kids were in high school. It really does change the way that you think about yourself when you look in the mirror.
(56:15) I can't wait for you to hear the remarkable story of my friend, Alina Villasante. That's coming up on the next episode of StRest. Don't miss it. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your reviews help others find the podcast and join our community. Follow me on social media, @kerstin.lindquist, for daily tips and inspiration, and visit my website at www.kerstin-lindquist.com to sign up for our newsletter and receive exclusive content. The information provided in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions that you may have regarding a medical condition.
(57:06) The host of this podcast is a certified health coach and medical researcher, not a licensed medical professional, and the content shared does not constitute medical advice. While we strive to provide accurate and up-to-date information, we encourage you to do your own research and consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your healthcare treatment plans. Thank you for joining me on this journey to reduce stress and make room for rest. Remember, you're not alone. Keep coming back, share your story, ask for help, and give yourself grace. (gentle music)
Transcribed from the episode audio.